How Iran will destroy Israel

Iranian government officials say many nasty things about Zionism and Israel. I wish they wouldn’t: they create tension and hostility and threaten the peace. Some examples:

  • Israel is a cancerous tumor that should be removed.
  • Stand firm and resist and Israel will be destroyed
  • Israel must be wiped off the map. The regime occupying Jerusalem must vanish from the pages of time.

Help! say some Israeli leaders. These people are crazy! They are going to drop nuclear bombs on us! We need to bomb them first! We dare not wait!

But what do the Iranians mean? Here are some quotes from the Supreme Leader, Ayatollah Khamenei. In the year 2000:

Iran’s stance has always been clear on this ugly phenomenon (Israel). We have repeatedly said that this cancerous tumor of a state should be removed from the region. The Palestinian issue is not an internal Israeli matter. It involves the interests of the whole Islamic world, including Iran. All should strive to return that piece of land to Islamic hands.

Palestinian refugees should return and Muslims, Christians and Jews could choose a government for themselves, excluding immigrant Jews.

No one will allow a bunch of thugs, lechers and outcasts from London, America and Moscow to rule over the Palestinians. The new Palestinian generation has learned that struggle is the way to victory, not negotiations.

In the year 2005:

There is only one solution to the issue of Palestine, the solution which we suggested a few years ago.

This solution is to hold a referendum with the participation of all native Palestinians, including Muslims, Jews and Christians, the Palestinians who live both inside and outside the occupied territories.

Any government that takes power as a result of this referendum and based on the Palestinian peoples’ vote, whether it is a Muslim, Christian or Jewish government or a coalition government, will be an acceptable government, and it will resolve the issue of Palestine. Without this, the Palestinian issue would not be settled.

In 2011:

 The Islamic Republic’s proposal to help resolve the Palestinian issue and heal this old wound is a clear and logical initiative based on political concepts accepted by world public opinion, which has already been presented in detail.

We do not suggest launching a classic war by the armies of Muslim countries, or throwing immigrant Jews into the sea, or mediation by the UN and other international organizations.

We propose holding a referendum with (the participation of) the Palestinian nation. The Palestinian nation, like any other nation, has the right to determine their own destiny and elect the governing system of the country.

Now, these remarks do not make very nice reading for Israelis. But the Supreme Leader is consistent and clear: Israel is not to be destroyed by military action, but by a popular referendum.

Short link religion-science-peace.org/?p=353

About David Gerald Fincham

Retired academic scientist.
This entry was posted in Iran, Israel / Palestine. Bookmark the permalink.
  • Nick

    It took some 2 years for the BBC to admit that there were problems with the “wipe from the map” translation put out by the IRIB.

    But a sober examination of the text eventually led to a generally accepted conclusion that they did a rubbish job.

    Ahmadinejad’s words are best translated as “the regime occupying Jerusalem must vanish from the pages of time”

    • Chris Berel

      As the ‘regime’ ruling Jerusalem is the duly elected leadership of a vibrant liberal democracy, unlike the tyrannical regime that usurped executive powers (via a brutal and blood- filled coup) after being elected as the “legislative body” for the Palestinian people, any suggestion that such a government “must vanish from the pages of time” is a lightly veiled threat of genocide.

      • Nick

        Its an apartheid state that bears the seeds of its own destruction.

        Its not even a state that has an army – its an army that has a state. It has total disrespect for borders, for WMD, for the agreements its signed and the promises its made.

        It would be difficult to think of a more extreme rogue nation!

  • http://www.israelinitiative.com/ Yishai_Kohen
    • http://religion-science-peace.org/ Walk Tall Hang Loose

      The phrase “Israel must be wiped off the map” is a mistranslation, as many Persian experts have confirmed. The correct translation is “the regime occupying Jerusalem must vanish from the pages of time”. It is a prediction that the Zionist regime will collapse, not a threat of military attack.

      • http://www.israelinitiative.com/ Yishai_Kohen

        Nope- not a “mistranslation. The link is from the IRIB, the ISLAMIC REPUBLIC OF IRAN BROADCASTING SERVICE. There’s no misunderstanding what they translated; what he said- or meant:

        Ahmadinejad: Israel must be wiped off the map

        Iran’s President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad on Wednesday called for Israel to be “wiped off the map”

        “The establishment of the Zionist regime was a move by the world
        oppressor against the Islamic world,” the President told a conference
        in Tehran entitled ‘the world without Zionism’.

        “The skirmishes in the occupied land are part of a war of destiny. The
        outcome of hundreds of years of war will be defined in Palestinian
        land,” he said.

        “As the Imam said, Israel must be wiped off the map,” said Ahmadinejad, referring to the late founder of the Islamic Republic of Iran, Imam Khomeini.

        Addressing some 4,000 students gathered in an interior ministry conference hall, Ahmadinejad also called for Palestinian unity, resistance and a point
        where the annihilation of the Zionist regime will come.

        “The Islamic umma (community) will not allow its historic enemy to live in its heartland,” he said.

        Regarding the Zionist regime’s retreat from the Gaza Strip he said, “we should not settle for a piece of land”.

        “Anyone who signs a treaty which recognises the entity of Israel means he has signed the surrender of the Muslim world,” Ahmadinejad said.

        “Any leaders in the Islamic umma who recognise Israel face the wrath of their own people.”

        Regarding the prolonged conflict between the Islamic Ummah and the
        Zionist regime, Ahmadinejad said “It dates backs hundreds of years.
        Sometimes Islam has advanced. Sometimes nobody was winning. Unfortunately over the past 300 years, the world of Islam has been in
        retreat”.

        “One hundred years ago the last trench of Islam fell, when the oppressors went towards the creation the Zionist regime. It is using it as a fort to spread its aims in the heart of the Islamic world.”

        • http://religion-science-peace.org/ Walk Tall Hang Loose

          Reality: President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad did quote Ayatollah Khomeini to the effect that “this Occupation regime over Jerusalem must vanish from the page of time” (in rezhim-e eshghalgar-i Qods bayad as safheh-e ruzgar mahv shavad). This was not a pledge to roll tanks and invade or to launch missiles, however. It is the expression of a hope that the regime will collapse, just as the Soviet Union did. It is not a threat to kill anyone at all.

          Reality: No Iranian leader in the executive has threatened an aggressive act of war on Israel, since this would contradict the doctrine of ‘no first strike’ to which the country has adhered. The Iranian president has explicitly said that Iran is not a threat to any country, including Israel.

          Above quotes from [juancole.com/2009/10/top-things-you-think-you-know-about.html]

          Journalists often exaggerate or distort stories. To find the truth you need to read independent academic authors who research original sources.

          • http://www.israelinitiative.com/ Yishai_Kohen

            Reality: The link I provided is from the IRIB, the ISLAMIC REPUBLIC OF IRAN BROADCASTING SERVICE.

            Juan Cole must have missed that one.

            All of the spin in the world won’t make the original from ISLAMIC REPUBLIC OF IRAN BROADCASTING SERVICE disappear- or change its real meaning and intention.

          • http://religion-science-peace.org/ Walk Tall Hang Loose

            Of course Juan Cole did not miss it. The speech by Ahmadinejad was given in Persian, quoting Khomenei who wrote in Persian. Cole was one of the many Persian speakers who pointed out the mistranslation which originated within the IRIB. You cannot trust journalist’s reports: you must go to the original sources to find the truth.

            As to the intentions of Iran, these are made quite clear in the quotes I gave you from Khamenei. Sure, they want Palestine to be re-united: sure, in this process Israel will disappear; sure, they support the Palestinian and Lebanese resistance to Zionist occupation and attacks: but they believe the real solution to the conflict should be by a popular referendum.

          • http://www.israelinitiative.com/ Yishai_Kohen

            Cole missed it. Willingly.

            IRIB, the ISLAMIC REPUBLIC OF IRAN BROADCASTING SERVICE, wrote what Ahmadinejad said, and anyone with any intellectual honesty who reads the article to which I posted a link understands that he meant the physical annihilation of Israel; not some namby-pamby changing of government. that’s why the article also states:

            Regarding the Zionist regime’s retreat from the Gaza Strip he said, “we should not settle for a piece of land”.

            “Anyone who signs a treaty which recognises the entity of Israel means he has signed the surrender of the Muslim world,” Ahmadinejad said.

          • Nick

            The IRIB plainly did not write what Ahmadinejad said.

            Meanwhile, there are much more damaging and threatening statements flowing from Zionist mouths all the time!

          • http://www.israelinitiative.com/ Yishai_Kohen

            The IRIB DID write what he said. It’s an official Iranian news agency. Kinda sucks to get caught though, doesn’t it?

          • Nick

            Bizarre – when the Israeli Defense Minister threatens the Palestinians with a “Holocaust” he is simply overstating his true intentions.

            But the same discredited hasbarists (not to say genocidal murderers) tell us that, if Amadinejad says he wants to see “Israel wiped off of the map” (which he didn’t) he is speaking the truth!

          • http://www.israelinitiative.com/ Yishai_Kohen

            What’s bizarre is that you think that an Israeli Defense Minister threatened the “Palestinians” with a “Holocaust”.

            On the other hand, an OFFICIAL Iranian news agency got caught telling the truth about what Ahmadinejad said. They sure are “hasbarists”.

          • Nick

            Normal people would never seize on a translation that was patently wrong. Israel not mentioned, map not mentioned.

            Normal people would think that Ahmadinejad’s words were a quote from his spiritual leader and were a prediction not a threat, the Zionist regime controlling Jerusalem would disappear from the pages of history. (The only wiggle room is that in Farsi the passive word “disappear” apparently overlaps with the active word “to wipe”)

            While normal people would think that the Gazans were indeed threatened with extermination – and the Defense Minister’s threat was real and his only fault was saying it would be a Holocaust!

            From the Jerusalem Post, a top academic. The man with the funny moustache was only sometimes as threatening as this:

            “When 2.5 million people live in a closed-off Gaza ….The pressure at the border will be awful. It’s going to be a terrible war. So, if we want to remain alive, we will have to kill and kill and kill. All day, every day”

          • http://religion-science-peace.org/ Walk Tall Hang Loose

            “The only wiggle room is that in Farsi the passive word ‘disappear’ apparently
            overlaps with the active word ‘to wipe’.”

            Nick, are you sure about this? Reference please. Juan Cole translates as ‘vanish’. In his original post (speaking from memory, I can no longer locate it on his website) he pointed out that the Farsi verb is intransitive just as is the English ‘vanish’.

          • Nick

            Sorry, I’m no expert and I don’t know where I saw that.

            I supposed that Juan Cole’s dialect of Farsi was not quite the same as that of Khameini and/or Ahmadinejad.

          • http://www.israelinitiative.com/ Yishai_Kohen

            Normal people wouldn’t state that they plan to wipe another country off the earth- but that’s exactly what Iran’s leader said- and of course he wasn’t talking simply politically.

            That’s clear from the official Iranian government news service, IRIB.

            As to the Israeli Defense Minister- who was widely condemned in Israel for what he said, what he said was THAT IF THEY CONTINUE TO SHOOT MISSILES INDISCRIMINATELY AT ISRAELI POPULATION CENTERS…

          • http://religion-science-peace.org/ Walk Tall Hang Loose
          • http://www.israelinitiative.com/ Yishai_Kohen

            Don’t blame MEMRI for what was actually said. This is from the Islamic Republic of Iran Broadcasting Network; Iran’s state news service:

            “Ahmadinejad: Israel must be wiped off the map” (2005/10/26)

            Tehran, Oct 26 – Iran’s President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad on Wednesday called for Israel to be “wiped off the map”.

            “The establishment of the Zionist regime was a move by the world oppressor against the Islamic world,” the President told a conference in Tehran entitled ‘the world without Zionism’.

            “The skirmishes in the occupied land are part of a war of destiny. The outcome of hundreds of years of war will be defined in Palestinian land,” he said.

            “As the Imam said, Israel must be wiped off the map,” said Ahmadinejad, referring to the late founder of the Islamic Republic of Iran, Imam Khomeini.

            Addressing some 4,000 students gathered in an interior ministry conference hall, Ahmadinejad also called for Palestinian unity, resistance and a point where the annihilation of the Zionist regime will come.

            “The Islamic umma (community) will not allow its historic enemy to live in its heartland,” he said.

            Regarding the Zionist regime’s retreat from the Gaza Strip he said, “we should not settle for a piece of land”.

            “Anyone who signs a treaty which recognises the entity of Israel means he has signed the surrender of the Muslim world,” Ahmadinejad said.

            “Any leaders in the Islamic umma who recognise Israel face the wrath of their own people.”…

            http://web.archive.org/web/20070708083524/http://www.iribnews.ir/Full_en.asp?news_id=200247

            And see these too:

            http://www.muslimnews.co.uk/news/news.php?article=10126

            http://english.aljazeera.net/archive/2005/10/200849132648612154.html

            http://english.aljazeera.net/English/archive/archive?ArchiveId=15816

            http://www.gulf-times.com/site/topics/article.asp?cu_no=2&item_no=58372&version=1&template_id=37&parent_id=17

            http://www.naharnet.com/domino/tn/NewsDesk.nsf/getstory?openform&AABA9F60B8E7EFDCC22570A600378838

            http://www.dawn.com/2005/10/27/int1.htm

            http://www.dailystar.com.lb/News/Middle-East/2011/Aug-27/Ahmadinejad-on-Al-Quds-Day-Annihilate-Israel.ashx#axzz1WQ9tSoS2

            http://europa.eu/rapid/pressReleasesAction.do?reference=SPEECH/05/696&format=HTML&aged=1&language=EN&guiLanguage=en

            http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4384264.stm

            Fars News Agency :: Wife of Assassinated Scientist: Annihilation of Israel “Mostafa’s Ultimate Goal”

            http://news.yahoo.com/wife-admits-iranian-nuclear-scientist-ultimate-goal-annihilation-174209842.html

          • http://religion-science-peace.org/ Walk Tall Hang Loose

            From the fair.org page I quoted:
            “Even the right-wing pro-Israel translation service MEMRI translated the Ahmadine-jad comment as “this regime that is occupying Jerusalem must vanish from the page of time” (CounterPunch, 8/28/06).”

            MEMRI got it right. IRIB got it wrong.

            This discussion about Ahmadinejad’s words is off-topic and irrelevant, and is now closed. The President of Iran has no authority over foreign policy or defense policy. The man in charge is the Supreme Leader. Despite his unpleasant, and even racist, rhetoric, which I have condemned, his policy is clear and consistent. Palestine should be re-united by means of a popular referendum.

          • http://www.israelinitiative.com/ Yishai_Kohen

            Please cite the MEMRI link directly.

            In any case, I believe Iran when it comes to what they said.

            And also you forgot about this:

            http://news.yahoo.com/wife-admits-iranian-nuclear-scientist-ultimate-goal-annihilation-174209842.html

          • http://religion-science-peace.org/ Walk Tall Hang Loose

            I answered all your points seven months ago. I repeat here a paragraph from Khamenei’s website that includes Khomenei’s remarks which were quoted by Ahmadinejad.

            “Regarding the issue of Palestine, the goal is to liberate it – that is, wiping out the Israeli government. There is no difference between territories occupied before or after the year 1967. Every inch of Palestinian lands is part of Muslims’ homeland. Any non-Muslim and non-Palestinian rule over Palestine is illegitimate. As Imam Khomeini said, “Israel must disappear.” If Palestinian Jews accept Islamic rule, they may live in Palestine. It is not a matter of anti-Semitism. The problem is that a Muslim homeland has been occupied. ”

            THE GOAL IS TO LIBERATE PALESTINE – THAT IS, WIPING OUT THE ISRAELI GOVERNMENT… ISRAEL MUST DISAPPEAR.

            And, as my article points out, the way in which Israel will disappear is to be by a popular referendum.

          • http://www.israelinitiative.com/ Yishai_Kohen

            Lest there be any further confusion- or rather, attempts to weasel out:

            Fars News Agency :: Wife of Assassinated Scientist: Annihilation of Israel “Mostafa’s Ultimate Goal”

            http://english.farsnews.com/newstext.php?nn=9010175602

            “Ahmadinejad says Israel will “disappear”"
            By Hossein Jaseb and Fredrik Dahl
            TEHRAN | Tue Jun 3, 2008 3:16am EDT

            (Reuters) – Iran’s president said on Monday Israel would soon disappear off the map and that the “satanic power” of the United States faced destruction, in his latest verbal attack on the Islamic Republic’s arch-enemies.

            President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad was speaking at a gathering of foreign guests marking this week’s 19th anniversary of the death of Iran’s late revolutionary leader, Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini, the official IRNA news agency said.

            “You should know that the criminal and terrorist Zionist regime which has 60 years of plundering, aggression and crimes in its file has reached the end of its work and will soon disappear off the geographical scene,” he said.

            Turning to the United States, Ahmadinejad said the era of decline and destruction of its “satanic power” had begun….

            http://www.reuters.com/article/2008/06/03/us-iran-israel-usa-idUSL0261250620080603

            “Ahmadinejad brands Israel a ‘stinking corpse’”
            (AFP) – May 8, 2008

            TEHRAN (AFP) — Iran’s hardline President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad on Thursday called Israel a “stinking corpse” which is doomed to disappear as the Jewish state celebrated its 60th anniversary.

            “Those who think they can revive the stinking corpse of the usurping and fake Israeli regime by throwing a birthday party are seriously mistaken,” Ahmadinejad was quoted as saying by the official IRNA news agency.

            “Today the reason for the Zionist regime’s existence is questioned, and this regime is on its way to annihilation,” he said.

            Ahmadinejad added that Israel “has reached the end like a dead rat after being slapped by the Lebanese” — a reference to the July-August 2006 war between Israel and the Shiite Hezbollah militia.

            Iran does not recognise the Jewish state, and since becoming president in 2005 Ahmadinejad has repeatedly provoked international outrage by predicting that Israel is doomed to disappear.

            He has also caused controversy by playing down the scale of the Holocaust.

            http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5ix-viVGAnfS1RHJGzZHSGjnzDIXg

            Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad: The Countdown for the Decline of America’s Demonic Power Has Begun. Zionist Germ of Corruption Will Be Wiped off the Face of the Earth

            http://www.thememriblog.org/blog_personal/en/7792.htm

            http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=449_1212593247

            Israel is a cancer cell, says Iran
            AFP
            May 16, 2011

            IRANIAN President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad has branded Israel a cancer cell that must be removed ..

            “Like a cancer cell that spreads through the body, this regime infects any region. It must be removed from the body,” he added…

            http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/breaking-news/israel-is-a-cancer-cell-says-iran/story-e6frf7jx-1226056586506

          • http://religion-science-peace.org/ Walk Tall Hang Loose

            “Ahmadinejad has repeatedly provoked international outrage by predicting that Israel is doomed to disappear.”

            Precisely. The Iranian leadership has never threatened a military attack on Israel; it has predicted the end of the Zionist regime in Jerusalem. Without knowing any Persian, you can already see that in Cole’s English transliteration: rhezhim-e is regime, and, as you must know, Qods is Jerusalem. The word Israel does not appear. Nor, according to Cole and others, do the words ‘wipe’ and ‘map’ appear, the words mean ‘vanish’ and ‘pages of time’. The difference between ‘wipe’ and ‘vanish’ is very significant. In Persian as well as in English the verb ‘vanish’ is intransitive. that means you cannot ‘vanish something’; vanishing is something that things do outside your own control. e.g ‘the cat has vanished’. In the next sentence in his speech, Ahmadinejad explicitly compared the forthcoming inevitable vanishing of the Zionist regime with the vanishing of the communist regime in the Soviet Union.

          • http://www.israelinitiative.com/ Yishai_Kohen

            I just gave you a whole host of articles and quotes that say otherwise.

            But hey- never let actual facts get in the way. “The Zionist regime” means Israel; not the present government of israel.

            Annihilation of Israel “Mostafa’s Ultimate Goal”

            …will soon disappear off the geographical scene…

            “Today the reason for the Zionist regime’s existence is questioned, and this regime is on its way to annihilation,” he said. (“Annihilation” means “total destruction”, and means total PHYSICAL destruction.)

            Israel a cancer cell that must be removed…

            “Like a cancer cell that spreads through the body, this regime
            infects any region. It must be removed from the body,” he added…

            Note that it is israel, not the present government of Israel, etc.

          • http://religion-science-peace.org/ Walk Tall Hang Loose

            The ‘Zionist regime’ means the *political entity* that is Israel, not its population, buildings and infrastructure. The word ‘annihilation’ is a translation into English, by someone we do not know, of a Persian word that neither of us knows, or would understand if we did. It certainly cannot involve physical destruction of Israel by military force. The policy of Iran is for Palestine to be re-united by peaceful means (except for legitimate Palestinian resistance to Israeli occupation and aggression). Physical destruction of Israel would be physical destruction of more than half of the territory of a re-united Palestine: something that would benefit no-one. I quote to you again the words of the Supreme Leader: “We do not suggest launching a classic war by the armies of Muslim countries, or throwing immigrant Jews into the sea…. we propose a referendum..

          • http://www.israelinitiative.com/ Yishai_Kohen

            1. The Zionist regime means Israel.

            2. Explitictly: “Annihilation of Israel ‘Mostafa’s Ultimate Goal’”

            3. Explicitly: “…will soon disappear off the geographical scene…” Geographical cannot mean anything BUT physical.

            4. Explicitly: “Annihilation”. Annihilation cannot mean anything BUT physical.

            5. Explicitly: “Cancer”. Cancer cannot mean anything BUT physical.

          • http://religion-science-peace.org/ Walk Tall Hang Loose

            1. ‘Zionist regime’ means the political entity Israel. The word regime cannot possibly refer to population, land and buildings.

            3.Unless you are an expert in Persian and have studied the original text, you cannot possibly know exactly what it meant. If every person in Israel was killed, and every building destroyed, the geography of the land would be unchanged. It is more likely that the phrase translated ‘disappear off the geographical scene’ means ‘disappear from the map’. This would be consistent with the Iranian policy of re-uniting Palestine, since then the political entity Israel would cease to exist, and not appear on any map.

          • http://www.israelinitiative.com/ Yishai_Kohen

            1. Zionist regime means Israel. The Jews. Land and buildings don’t matter.

            2. When the guy building the nukes’ goal was the annihilation of Israel, it clearly means the physical annihilation.

            3. “…will soon disappear off the geographical scene…” Geographical cannot mean anything BUT physical.

            4. “Annihilation” cannot mean anything BUT physical, and has been used time and again in their statements. If they would have meant something else, they would have said something else, and if we all misunderstood them, they would have said so and clarified their real intentions. But they didn’t.

            5. “Removing cancer” IS a metaphor. For killing it. It’s not like it can be changed into something else.

            None of this IS going to happen. Iran won’t have nukes- no matter what. Israel IS here to stay. “Palestine”, on the other hand, never existed and won’t. They have consistently chosen war, terror, and apartheid instead.

            Oh well. That’s their choice.

          • http://religion-science-peace.org/ Walk Tall Hang Loose

            Yishai: you live in a nightmare world that is generated in your own head by listening to propaganda and not checking out the original sources.

            1. No-one in Iran is ‘making nukes’. American intelligence says so, Israeli intelligence says so, the IAEA says so, the US Secretary of State says so, and for 30 years senior Iranian leaders have been consistently saying that nuclear weapons are forbidden on religious and humanitarian grounds. [wideasleepinamerica.com/2012/10/the-goldberg-predilections-ignoring.html]

            2. No senior Iranian leader has ever said that Iran will use military force to attack, destroy or annihilate Israel. [Don't believe me? Here is a challenge for you. 100 $US to your favourite charity if you can find such a statement in an authoritative news report.] No. They say things like: if the Palestinians stand firm and resist, Israel will be destroyed; Israel will vanish from the pages of time; Israel is a cancer that must be removed from the region. They have never said that Iran itself will take any action against Israel, other than to retaliate if attacked, and to provide support to Hamas and Hezbollah which they regard as legitimate resistance groups against Israeli occupation and aggression.

            I sincerely recommend that you read some of Ayatollah Khamenei’s official English website [english.khamenei.ir]. I don’t expect you to like or agree with it, but it will give you a much more balanced understanding of Iranian policy.

            3. Palestine has been a defined political entity since 1923. It had all the attributes of a state: defined borders, settled population (called Palestinians), a government that controlled its territory, even its own currency; except that it was not independent because it had a British administration under the Mandatory system. Since the purpose of the Mandatory system was to bring the former Ottoman territories to independence, it was often called a ‘provisional state’, though the League of Nations Mandate itself calls it a ‘country’.

            When the State of Israel was declared in May 1948 the part of Palestine outside the declared and recognized borders of Israel was still called Palestine (what else could it be?) and its people Palestinians. It had no government because the Mandate had ended, and by the end of 1949 all its territory was under the control of either Israel, Egypt or Jordan. After 1967 it was all under the control of Israel. In the part of Palestine between the declared border of Israel and the 1949 Armistice Line Israel imposed a civilian administration, illegally making it, de facto, a part of Israel. The rest of Palestine, i.e Gaza and the West Bank, was (and is) under Israeli military occupation.

            Palestine became a state in 1998 when it was declared and recognized, to date by 132 other states. This is exactly the same process that created Israel in 1948. In 2012 Palestine was given the status of non-member observer state by the UN General Assembly, with only two states voting against.

            Palestine exists, and is occupied by Israel. It is utterly absurd to say otherwise.

          • http://www.israelinitiative.com/ Yishai_Kohen

            I live in a world of reality where words and actions matter. Iran has continually said what they mean, and the message is clear:

            “Iran’s incitement to genocide”

            Over the years, Americans have come to discount statements on Israel and Zionism by Iran’s President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad. Repetition has rendered them unremarkable.

            Israel must be “wiped off the map.” Zionism is a “germ of corruption” that “will be wiped off the face of the earth.” It is a “cancer cell” that must be “removed from the body.” The Zionist regime is “heading toward annihilation.” “They should know that they are nearing the last days of their lives.” “Israel is destined for destruction and will soon disappear.”

            One is tempted to add: blah, blah, blah. It is easy to dismiss this rhetoric as being designed for domestic consumption. And soon after Iran’s June election, Ahmadinejad will be out of a job — history’s most persuasive argument in favor of term limits.

            But the problem is this: Ahmadinejad’s language is not exceptional within the Iranian regime.

            Iran’s supreme leader, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, also has referred to Israel as a “cancerous tumor.” “The perpetual subject of Iran,” he has explained, “is the elimination of Israel from the region.” “There is only one solution to the Middle East problem, namely the annihilation and destruction of the Jewish state.” In recent weeks, Khamenei has promised, if the Iranian nuclear program is attacked, to “level down Tel Aviv and Haifa.”

            Senior Iranian military leaders, presidential advisers and religious authorities can be quoted endlessly in a similar vein. Zionists are “microbes” and “bacteria” and a “cancerous growth.” “Jews are very filthy people,” who are responsible for spreading disease and drug abuse. There is a religious duty to “fight the Jews and vanquish them so that the conditions for the advent of the Hidden Imam will be met.”

            Such arguments are deeply embedded in the Iranian regime — as a statement of mission, an organizing principle. This won’t be changed by a single election.

            It is possible to overplay such rhetoric. The Iranian government is not simply an irrational, apocalyptic cult. It may eventually respond to sanctions. It is sometimes necessary for America to engage in diplomacy with very nasty people.

            But it is possible to underplay this language as well. It is not merely hate speech. It has the hallmarks of incitement to genocide: the dehumanization of a targeted group and the use of code words to cover genocidal intent. (In Rwanda, Tutsis were described as “snakes” and “cockroaches” who should be sent “down the river.” The rivers were eventually clogged with corpses.)

            One interesting theoretical question: Is such Iranian rhetoric a crime under the Genocide Convention of 1948 — to which Iran is a signatory — which forbids the “direct and public incitement to commit genocide”? The language of Iranian leaders is certainly direct and public. When forced to defend themselves, they often claim (unpersuasively) that their target is Zionists rather than Jews. But in the determination of genocidal intent, this doesn’t matter. Genocide can be directed against any group — racial, ethnic, religious or national.

            Yet the (rather thin) case law on incitement to genocide also requires an imminent threat of violence from the audience. In the Iranian case, the threat comes from government action — providing long-range missiles to Hamas or (down the road) the use of nuclear weapons.

            In any event, a prosecution of Iranian officials for incitement to genocide is an exceedingly theoretical prospect, since it would require a referral from the U.N. Security Council — something Russia and China, which hold vetoes in that body, would not entertain.

            But Iranian incitement should not be glossed over. It is not common, culturally excusable or normal among nations. “How many other states do we know,” asks Michael Abramowitz, director of the Center for Genocide Prevention at the U.S. Holocaust Memorial Museum, “that talk about other human beings in the way the Iranian leadership speaks of Israelis and Jews? They are conditioning generations of young people in their own country and the broader Middle East to think of Jews as subhuman, which makes acts of terror by groups like Hamas and Hezbollah seem more thinkable.”

            Several years ago, during an Iranian military parade, a Shahab-3 missile was decorated with the banner: “Israel must be uprooted and wiped from [the pages of] history.” This can’t be reasonably construed as a vivid political metaphor. It is the depiction of a twisted ideal, broadly shared within the Iranian regime. And it is one reason that President Obama is right to draw his red line. Such a banner must never hang on an Iranian nuclear weapon.

            http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/michael-gerson-irans-hate-speech-is-an-incitement-to-genocide/2013/04/04/2686e7a8-9ca1-11e2-9a79-eb5280c81c63_story.html

          • http://religion-science-peace.org/ Walk Tall Hang Loose

            There you go again, reprinting propaganda rather that researching original sources to find the truth.

            The first quote in the Washington Post article is the famous “Israel must be wiped off the map”. We already know that this is a mistranslation, don’t we? Why does the author keep on repeating it? You cannot take him seriously.

            The correct translation of the remark by Khomeini which Ahmadinejad quoted is included in this paragraph from Khamenei’s website.

            “Regarding the issue of Palestine, the goal is to liberate it – that is, wiping out the Israeli government. There is no difference between territories occupied before or after the year 1967. Every inch of Palestinian lands is part of Muslims’ homeland. Any non-Muslim and non-Palestinian rule over Palestine is illegitimate. As Imam Khomeini said, “Israel must disappear.” If Palestinian Jews accept Islamic rule, they may live in Palestine. It is not a matter of anti-Semitism. The problem is that a Muslim homeland has been occupied. ”

            It is the government of Israel that must be wiped out. Not the population. Jews can continue to live in Palestine if they accept Islamic rule.

            There is no incitement to genocide in anything that any senior Iranian leader has ever said. The same challenge I made before applies.

            And, by the way, there is a substantial Jewish community in Iran. How do you explain that if Iran is intent on genocide?

          • http://www.israelinitiative.com/ Yishai_Kohen

            As to “Palestine”, I live here. Believe me. They don’t exist. No land. No sovereignty. No currency. No nothing. They’re less than virtual.

            The simple fact is that the would-have-been “Palestinians” could have had a state in peace, but chose war on MANY occasions- INSTEAD:

            The would-have-been “Palestinians” would have had a state IN PEACE in 1937 with the Peel Plan, but they violently rejected it.

            They would have had a state IN PEACE in 1939 with the MacDonald White Paper, but they violently rejected it (and Jews would have even been restricted from BUYING land from Arabs).

            They would have had a state IN PEACE in 1948 with UN 181, but they violently rejected it (and actually claimed that the UN had no such mandate!).

            They could have had a state IN PEACE in Judea, Samaria, and Gaza from 1948-1967 without any Jews- because the Arabs had ethnically cleansed every last one; but they violently rejected it. In fact, that’s exactly when they established Fatah (1959) and the PLO (1964).

            They could have had a state IN PEACE after 1967, but instead, the entire Arab world issued the Khartoum Resolutions:

            A. No peace with Israel
            B. No recognition of Israel
            C. No negotiations with Israel

            They would have had a state IN PEACE in 2000 with the Oslo Accords, but they violently rejected it- as always.

            And as soon as Israel pulled every single Israeli out of Gaza, what did the would-have-been “Palestinians” do? They immediately started shooting thousands of missiles into Israeli population centers, they elected Hamas (whose official platform calls for jihad with no negotiations until Israel is destroyed) to rule them, and they have dug tunnels crossing into the Negev to kill and kidnap Israelis.

            And even afterwards, Ehud Olmert made his subsequent generous offer that went far beyond even that of Barak. The would-have-been “Palestinians” rejected it.

            They had many chances.

            They threw them all away because destroying Israel was higher on their priority list. It still is.

            Oh well. That’s their choice. Game over for them. They won’t have a state here.

          • http://religion-science-peace.org/ Walk Tall Hang Loose

            I don’t accept your version of history, but let’s not argue that now. It is not right to punish people now for things they or their ancestors did in the past.

            The situation now is the following:

            1. The Palestinian people have a right to self determination in their own land. That is the fundamental principle.

            2. When the State of Israel was declared on 14th May 1948 it asked for and received recognition on the borders specified in the UN Partition Plan. Those are the legal borders of Israel.

          • http://religion-science-peace.org/ Walk Tall Hang Loose
          • Chris Berel

            If only it were that simple.